Drone Strike

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Roosty6, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. Even though this happened in Canada, it's just a matter of time before the U.S. becomes a total NFZ. If you haven't already, read about Dianne Feinstein's (and others) drone bill of 2017 (Drone Federalization Act). Too bad a few irresponsible buffoons have to spoil things for everyone, no matter what it may be.
  2. I don't see the U.S. every becoming a total NFZ. What I see is the government requiring Drone manufacturers chipping the Drone so it can be scanned in flight and identified. That will stop the violations near airports. Simple scanning equipment will monitor the air space near the airport and record any violations. That will result in a knock on your door later in the evening......
  3. Yes, as usual a few irresponsible operators will make life difficult for all flyers. Many miles from an airport here though.
  4. #5 LabRat1957, Oct 16, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
    Maybe not a total NFZ but, state, city, and other local ordinances could be enacted that require some sort of fee just to fly our toys. Something to that affect is going on now in the case of Singer vs Newton. In the plaintiff's town, a $10.00 registration fee is required for all operators within the city. Doesn't sound like much but why should we have to pay extra fees as hobbyists or weekend fliers. This can become just another money-grabbing government overreach and regulation. Of course there's more to his case than this but, once the snowball starts downhill it only get bigger. I agree and have no problem with "chipping" the drones so they can't go above certain altitudes or into airport space. I don't trust the government to stay out of our pockets when they smell another way to take more of our cash. Drone registration will be required again for all drones. We'll probably have to fill out a registration form at purchase just as though purchasing a firearm. I have no idea if any of this will come to pass here in the U.S. but the doors have been opened.
  5. I have another problem with my intensions with the X-Star. I plan to fly and video whales, thats my summer employment, whale watch captain, well,,, Over whales you must stay over 1,000 ft, but I cant go over 400 legally,,ha! I am in contact with the NOAA locally and they are going to give me some info on what is what I hope. Basically as long as I don't change the whales behavior I'm ok, but they are getting back to me to clear things up. They aren't sure either what to do.Better safe than sorry. Will post some info when available.
  6. Al, How far out over the water (away from land) will you be?
    The 400' limit is a FAA limit, while the 1000' limit is a NOAA limit. One thing to keep in mind is that most of the better drones use 'Ultrasonics' on the undersides of the drones - literally, to detect the ground with. Whales and dolphins can easily ear ultrasonics that we are unable to hear. You might give Autel a call and ask them if there might be a way (or mode) in which you can turn off the ultrasonic ground detector if/when you are flying out over the water.

    My first introduction to drones was actually out over the water. I am a diver and drones are often used now to fly out over reefs and other areas - so that one can actually see marine life and other objects in the water before taking the dive. (A drone also provides fabulous marine pictures!)

    I would never want to do anything that would disturb marine life in any way. Likewise, I have found that the use of drones to look over an area (without disturbing it) to be extremely effective and successful.

    Last, as with all other scenerios, good common sense comes into play. If other people are out watching the whales, I'd avoid putting the drone in the air as it would surely disturb other people; more than it would disturb the marine life.
  7. kroorda,
    That's quite interesting about the ultrasonics, that might need more investigating. You might have just given my partner ( a marine biologist Phd.) and myself our reason for a drone research permit to see if they really are bothered by this.
    Our local NOAA enforcement officer has stated that as long as I don't harass or change the behavior of the animals I am ok for his part. I still need to contact the FAA for some clarity, even though I will be flying in a 5 mile area between two airport zones with no conflict. One other situation is the USCG. They fly a rescue helicopter in this area daily at well below the 1,000 ft level. I have a bit of a gauntlet with the three agencies all involved in one way or another. We watch Gray Whales which feed within a few hundred yards of shore during the summer months. I have university friends that use a DJI in pursuit of research with these whales and do not have to adhere to many rules concerning their intrusion on the whales. I am contacting the government agencies as purely a recreational flyer. We do plan on getting a commercial or research permit in the future which would also give us more leeway to fly around the whales. I watch whales 10 hours a day 7 days a week during the summer and understand how to maneuver a boat around the animals without disturbing them. They have become quite accustomed to our presence over the years. I have had a few run-ins with drones out there on the water and trying to bring this out in the open to clarify some rules and protect our whales. I will post any info I find out this winter and hopefully get to do some filming of the whales "legally".
  8. That's an interesting point about the ultrasonics. I know other brands such as DJI do have the option to turn off the sensors. I thought I saw where the it could be turned off on the XSP too but I'm not positive of that at the moment. Anyone finding out for sure please post about it for us. I'll look at my Starlink to see if there is anything there as well.
  9. Hi Al, I am also inclined to think along the same lines as your local NOAA officer. I would certainly think that the drone would have to be very close ( <20m) to bother the animals. Note that the very low level ultrasonics that are used on the drone will not travel through the water any more than just a few inches (literally). Even low level, low frequency RF has difficulty penetrating the water much more than 1m. Therefore, while the animals are underwater, there would be no disturbance at all. Then, when they are breaching, I would imagine that all the sounds/noise made when they breach the surface would be dominate over the sounds (motor + ultrasonic) of the drone. Again, if the drone was above 20m, it the animals would not detect it at all.

    Given your position (marine research) and knowledge, it would, in fact, be compelling to do a short study (with the drone) to see just how much (if any) disturbance a drone would cause. Would the animals resubmerge themselves more quickly in the presence of a drone? Might they stay submerged longer? or Would they stay above the surface longer and possibly show interest in the drone? Since the use of drones is a very new thing, it would be valuable to NOAA, and all regulatory agencies to have more information about how drones affect animal marine life. As we all know, submarines often emit sonar and communications that can be heard and DO (without any doubt) disturb animal marine life up to 1000 miles away. Then, when we add the enormous sounds of large vessels in the water, the oceans have become a very noisy place; a place that is often disturbing to marine animals. In fact, we may find that by using drones, we can observe and even track larger marine animals and palegics in a way that is less disturbing than methods we have previously used.

    Last, I recently discovered after-market props for the Autel aircraft that are made by a company called Master AirScrew. Their props are advertised to be quieter than the stock props. After receiving the Master Airscrew props, I hovered my Autel directly in front of me and took a sound level reading with the stock (Autel) Props. I then installed the Master Airscrew props and took another sound level reading and the sound level was reduced by 6 db! A 6db difference is relatively small and (for some people) hard to detect. However, it is real. Therefore, to keep the sound of your aircraft as low as possible, I would recommend those props. See: http://www.masterairscrew.com/colle...t-upgrade-propellers-mr-au-9-4x5-set-x4-black

    And, of course, as LabRat mentioned above, you could see if there is a way to selectively turn off the ultrasonics at times. That information could best be received by giving Autel a call.
  10. Krooda,
    OSU have already used sound monitors that float in the water to record noise levels in and around where we watch the whales. Problem is, they keep getting hit by boats, intentional or not. That is an ongoing study. Yes, I am going to speak with my partner and check if we can get a research grant going to conduct such a study here on the west coast as to the effect of drones on marine mammals most particularly the gray whale. I saw the Airscrew props and don't think 6db would be of any significance, but it might be one aspect of the research we can do. thanks for your input and ideas.
  11. Al. Keep up the good/great work.
  12. kroorda, WOW, thanks for the video post. I used to live in Maui and have lots of Humpback encounters. I hope to post some Gray whale video this summer. I have my 107 test on Jan 2nd and go see the NOAA office here right after that to establish some ground rules.
    thanks again,
  13. I'll be looking forward to some pictures! :)

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